[App_rpt-users] Fwd: RE: please please help

Shane Morris edgecomberts at gmail.com
Sat Nov 10 13:58:01 EST 2012

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Shane Morris" <edgecomberts at gmail.com>
Date: 11/11/2012 5:56 AM
Subject: RE: [App_rpt-users] please please help
To: "Eric Guth" <eric at efratnetworks.com>

Hi Eric,

I understand completely - the brain drain is alive and well in Australia
too, let me assure you. I am probably one of five people in my local area
of 20,000 people who know what I know, and certainly the only one who uses
open source solutions.

I can also understand your motivation with the "distributed nodes" - I
personally would love to see such a system exist. I'm going to make a
suggestion for you.

I know there are Real Time Linux kernels available that would give you the
deterministic timing needed to operate a RTCM alike system. However getting
such a kernel to run on an RPi would be an uphill battle that I don't think
anyone would enjoy.

There are alternatives however, such as the excellent Cubieboard product
I'm planning on buying for Christmas. This board is a 1GHz processor with
HDMi and SATA as well as both audio in and out and 96 I/Os. But here's the
kicker (and why I'm suggesting it) - the Allwinner A10 is a completely open
source chip.

That means that a compilation of a RT kernel would be a trivial exercise.

None of this "Oh, our boot process is proprietary and you need to use a
patched kernel" stuff that Ramesh, Jim and I run into with the RPi. I
personally think its a load of bollocks to tell the truth. But hey, I don't
own the company, I just use their products. Plenty of the "Consume and use,
and don't ask questions" going on.

Eric, the best part about the board, apart from the open source thing, is
price: US$49. Ain't that a beauty? So $11 more than an RPi and its much
more likely to do what you want. Fair deal to me.

Www.cubieboard.org should get you out of trouble - they have a page on
indiegogo too, I'm planning on getting two "Rich Packs" - one for myself
and one for a good friend of mine who loves open source.

Eric, I hope this helps - of course the benefits of adminning a familiar
system and knowing your way around the software would make your distributed
node effort a piece of cake. I am, of course, available should you need me,
I've always wanted to play around with embedded real time, now I might have
a chance and an impetuous. :)

Thanks Eric, and best of luck on your efforts!

On 11/11/2012 5:29 AM, "Eric Guth" <eric at efratnetworks.com> wrote:

> Dear Shane,
> Thanks for your very thoughtful message.  I guess that I will buy an RTCM
> in the near future for a mobile node.  Jim tells me that I will get half
> way to work before a server in my car will register with the network.  He
> is big on the RTCM, and for good reason.  I was thinking of the RPi as a
> way to build cheaper micro nodes to distribute around Israel for those of
> us who want to build a statewide single channel (or channel pair) mobile
> network.  It lends itself well for placement at our member's homes using
> the Maxtrac radios that we find here.   I am the only one these days that
> knows how to fix repeaters (a sad commentary), so the ideal of distributed
> nodes makes an easier deployment versus finding the key or arranging for
> someone to meet us at the radio site.
> 73,
> Eric
> 4Z5UG / WA6IGR
> Allstar Node: 28422
> 4Z5UG at guth.us
> Israel Direct: 077-950-9451
> USA Direct: +1-720-377-3840
> Skype:  ericrguth
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shane Morris [mailto:edgecomberts at gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 4:34 PM
> To: Eric Guth
> Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] please please help
> Hi Eric,
> I can't see why not, but with the following provisos: the RPi must run an
> Asterisk server. So in effect, you'd need to have IAX trunks all over the
> place (no good using SIP, can't use a PTT signal with SIP), and of course,
> you'd need to have a dial plan to reflect this.
> The next issue will be timing: one would need to use one of the GPIOs on
> the RPi as the 1PPS signal, and program the RPi such. Can it be done?
> Certainly.
> The next issue after that is "real time" - the RTCM is a *very* basic
> device. Its "hard" real time, cause simply, it don't run anything else. Its
> designed to do one thing, and do that one thing well: turn VoIP packets
> into audio, and vice versa. Can an RPi do this? Yes, it could, but you'd
> need to be *very* deterministic in the way you go about it. Knowing my
> heading beating, and also the head beating of Jim and Ramesh, a Real Time
> Linux with deterministic properties might be a bit of a way off.
> So how would we attack this? The Asterisk issues are minor: one would just
> need to make sure their dial plan reflects the fact they're having a server
> on each node. Not a biggie.
> Timing is also easily solved: see this -
> http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/alamode-arduino-compatible-raspberry-pi-plate-p-1285.html?cPath=132_133
> Its an expansion shield for the RPi with an Arduino chip, and shield
> pinout, meaning one could easily plug in a GPS shield. Serial through the
> Arduino to set the time (also important!) and the 1PPS on a spare GPIO into
> the program to determine timing for the RTCM program.
> Lastly is the deal breaker: can we get a real time kernel? And thats what
> I'm not sure of. Can it be deterministic enough for us? Again, unsure, the
> RPi isn't a device designed for hard real time. You'd know as well as I do,
> that if you have even the slightest delay in a voting network, we're up the
> proverbial creek without the proverbial paddle, especially if the base
> stations transmit zones overlap, which results in interference and
> intermod. This is the reason I'm redesigning the RTCM myself to avoid those
> problems.
> I would really love to see a real time kernel on the RPi, that would be
> the coolest...! But after the debacle I had with the kernel sources, I
> wouldn't hold your breath... sorry to give you that bad news.
> In any case Eric, its food for thought! =)
> Shane.
> On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 12:59 AM, Eric Guth <eric at efratnetworks.com>
> wrote:
> > Shane,
> >
> > Can you get a Raspberry PI to work like a RTCM working through a remote
> server.  I can see using the Raspberry Pi with the URI for mobile and
> remote radio back to my home server.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Eric
> > 4Z5UG / WA6IGR
> > Allstar Node: 28422
> > 4Z5UG at guth.us
> > Israel Direct: 077-950-9451
> > USA Direct: +1-720-377-3840
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Shane Morris [mailto:edgecomberts at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:19 AM
> > To: Eric Guth; app_rpt mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [App_rpt-users] please please help
> >
> > Hi Eric,
> >
> > Yeah, I wasn't trying to be smart or anything, only guide Rich in the
> best possible way. I've been playing with it all for years, and *I'M* still
> learning =) I particularly enjoyed helping to get app_rpt working on the
> RaspberryPi (which reminds me, I have to email Ramesh and Jim) and I
> learned alot, and will continue to learn.
> >
> > Theres some really great people on this list, and I feel honoured to
> > be a part of their number. Of course, thank you for accepting my inane
> > questions too...! =D
> >
> > If we ever get off our learners permit, I guess that when they stop
> bringing out new ideas - loving AllMon! Good work guys! The other thing is,
> this is a volunteer effort, and together we stand, divided we fall. I know
> what I'd prefer. I'm probably re-iterating old ideas, but its important to
> focus on why something exists sometimes.
> >
> > I'm moving onto getting app_rpt working on a Cubieboard soon, when I pay
> indiegogo for two (one for my friend Carmel for her Christmas present), and
> then chan_voter. I want to get AllMon running too, I think it would be
> invaluable for testing and general operation of the network. If I can vote
> in my workshop, I'll be a happy man...! I'll keep the URI on the
> RaspberryPi, no need to hose that work, and in time, I'll provide my disk
> image for the community - I even hope to provide it back to the RPi
> community at large.
> >
> > Of course, if I'm saying anything here that doesn't sound right, pull
> > me up, explain to me why it is so. But I reckon, if I can get a URI
> > working on RPi then I can get a Cubieboard to run a vote director. If
> > I can get it all running by October next year is the challenge...! =P
> >
> > Thanks for your kind words Eric, its nice to know that I've helped in
> some small way.
> >
> > Shane.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Eric Guth <eric at efratnetworks.com>
> wrote:
> >> Shane - thanks for your response to Rich.  I spoke to him over the
> >> air and gave him the list when I realized that I too am still on an
> >> Allstar learner's permit.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Eric. 4Z5UG
> >>
> >> Eric Guth
> >> Tel: 077-950-9451
> >> USA: 1-720-377-3840
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 9, 2012, at 6:15 AM, "Shane Morris" <edgecomberts at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Your best bet would be to do some reading. there's plenty of Howtos
> >> out there that explain basic tasks. Linux, as you may have guessed,
> >> isn't Windows.
> >>
> >> I know this sounds like I'm trying to fob you away, but your best
> >> tool is to READ then DO. If you are committed to running a node, and
> >> you don't hose it at least once, seriously, you're not trying hard
> >> enough
> >> :)
> >>
> >> I can be a bit pedantic because I've been playing with Linux and
> >> Solaris since 1999, but I assure you, I started where you are too,
> >> and patience and perseverance always wins out. Before that I trained on
> System 6 and MSDOS.
> >> And I've been playing with computers - especially obsolete ones -
> >> since I was 8 (in 1992). You always know you've learned too much when
> >> you can fix a
> >> 20 year old computer with bubble gum and prayer :)
> >>
> >> So, for you: Google "Linux System Administration Howto." Read it,
> >> then come back to us. Good luck and best wishes in your journey! I
> >> hope to hear you on the airwaves soon!
> >>
> >> On 09/11/2012 3:05 PM, <kingshadow1 at cox.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Please help me , I have been trying to load Centos for days. I don't
> >>> know anything about lynix, when I type in the root password it shows
> >>> no evidence of my typing. I don't know how to work this download.I
> >>> have acid install instructions, but they do not help. Do I type in
> >>> the password and hit enter ? I don't know what to do.I am trying to
> >>> put together an allstar node. I have the usb  fob, I have the radio, I
> have a computer, I have a node number
> >>> and I d number,    and  the instructions I'm getting are not helping
> and
> >>> nobody has been able to answer my questions. I was given this place
> >>> by a friend who said the best people are here. I would really like
> >>> to have an allstar node. I need someone to take me by the hand and
> lead me thru this
> >>> thing.I will appreaciate anything someone can do to help me. Rick   K
> F 7 T
> >>> B T
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> App_rpt-users mailing list
> >>> App_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
> >>> http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> App_rpt-users mailing list
> >> App_rpt-users at ohnosec.org
> >> http://ohnosec.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/app_rpt-users
> >
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